Obama takes on Bill Clinton

Something very important is happening right now and it could really help the Obama campaign put this "inexperience" theme thrown at him , to rest for good.

As you all are well aware by now , Bill Clinton decided to take a huge swing at Obama by suggesting he's inexperience during an interview for the Bloomberg Television program `'Political Capital With Al Hunt.

Obama has been attacking this (experience) issue very hard for the past months or so and my guess is that the Clintons feel he's starting to make some headway , so they decided to poke at Obama's healing wound , hoping it would derail his campaign , but this time , they're sending bill Clinton out there , BUT THERE'S A HUGE PROBLEM IN TROTTING OUT BILL TO DO HILLARY'S DIRTY WORK Boy o Boy , Obama could easily give this exact same speech  seen on this youtube video above to defend himself from his biggest weakness so far in the campaign and Bill Clinton could be his antidote to fix this problem.

And yes , the Obama campaign is jumping all over it and this morning , i had a big smile on my face while reading this NYT article written by Adam Nagourney

Obama Quotes Clinton on Clinton's Experience

This morning, when Barack Obama - with some ceremony and a bit of mystery - delivered the latest of his ongoing riffs rebutting the suggestion, by Hillary Rodham Clinton, and Mr. Clinton, that he does not have the experience to be president.
Standing in a park here, Mr. Obama announced that he was going to quote what another former candidate running for president who had been criticized for not having enough experience had said in response to the charge.
"He said, `The same old experience is not relevant: You can have the right kind of experience and the wrong kind of experience,' '' Mr. Obama said. He than paused for a dramatic moment to answer the question for anyone in the audience who had not figured it out.
"Well, that candidate was Bill Clinton," he said. "And I think he was absolutely right."

Wow , if you're Bill Clinton , how do you take on your own words???...As far as i'm concern , Obama should incorporate Bill quotes into his speech to make his case..This is like an endorsement.

I believe the Obama campaign had always had in mind the idea of using Bill's word against Hillary , but the Clintons gave him the perfect reason to do it by attacking him first on this issue...

Mr. Obama's remark, delivered at a lightly attended rally on a beautiful fall morning in Concord, was an obvious response to a slap Mr. Clinton made of Mr. Obama on this same issue earlier this week.

Here's Obama's response video:

Nicely done...Again , Obama should incorporate Bill's quote into his stump speech because it is fair game and he's not bad-mouthing him since this is his words , not Obama...

Also , the trillion dollar question is whether it would be fair game for the Obama campaign to use the bill clinton video video clip as an ad to justify that Bill supports Obama LOL?

What do you guys thing?..Would Iowans see it as disrespectful?


Display:


Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Repost your youtube JaeHood


by iamready on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 09:15:21 AM EST

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Risky, always to try to get between husband and wife. Imagine an ad that found a clip from Michelle and tried to use it against Barack.

Plus it could end up as a "You're no Bill Clinton," set up for Hillary.


by MassEyesandEars on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 09:33:21 AM EST

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Not the same at all. Michelle wasn't the former president. And the answer to any "you're no ill Clinton" set up for Hillary is easy. Barack replies, "Neither are you."


by Mystylplx on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 01:59:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

No, Barack replies.

"I don't want to be Bill Clinton."

But I like the "neither are you" as well.


"I don't oppose all wars...what I do oppose, is a dumb war" ~ Barack Obama
by BlueDiamond on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 04:16:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (2.00 / 1)

How about, "Neither are you." Then a pause and, "But it's OK that I'm not Bill Clinton because I'm not running on Bill Clintons record and experience."


by Mystylplx on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 04:50:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

"Bill" not "ill."


by Mystylplx on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 02:00:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (2.00 / 2)

Someone posted a comment to the NYT article on this exchange which I thought was quite appropriate on the whole issue of his experience vs Hillary's and the association her campaign is trying to build with her husband's presidency:


"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie - deliberate, contrived and dishonest - but the myth - persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."

JFK



by Shaun Appleby on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 09:52:32 AM EST

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Bill Clinton is not a God...when he enters the fray he should be slapped down just like anyone else. People that feel offended by that notion would never vote for Obama anyway...so to hell with them. Please Obama take this very flawed and reckless man on!!!


by NewNoir on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 10:28:48 AM EST

Please Obama take this very flawed and reckless (none / 0)

man on!

Oh yeah, do it Obama - please, please, please, please

PLEASE

DO!

I dare ya...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 11:43:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't think they will (none / 0)

today's WaPost

But Axelrod emphasized that there will be no all-out assault on the New York senator.

"I know there's a tremendous blood lust out there in the political community who want us to be in a steel-cage match with her," he said. "Barack Obama didn't get in this race to tear Hillary Clinton down or anybody else down. He got into the race to lift the country up. No doubt we have differences, and he will draw those differences. But he's going to resist the thirst for gratuitous combat, because that's part of his critique of the political process."


McCain - a serial Opportunist, from marriage to policy positions
by TarHeel on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 12:21:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't think they will (none / 0)

It's ok to hit back hard...you don't need to be gratutious when you do that.


by NewNoir on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 01:23:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Obama has no chance "taking Bill Clinton" on.  None.  Zip.

If he does that, he will hurt himself more than with anything he did previously.  It is a non-starter.

You have to be realistic.  Obama is at 62% popularity with Democrats, 30% unpopularity.  Those are terrible numbers.  In contrast, if Hillary Clinton is at 81% popularity with Democrats you KNOW Bill Clinton is at 93%, 95%.  With those dynamics, by "taking on" the most popular Democrat of our lifetimes, all Obama can do is hurt himself big time.  It is just reality at play here.  


by georgep on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 03:00:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

I don't think it's so much a matter of "taking Bill Clinton on." but there's nothing wrong with quoting him. And it's a great quote that helps Obama make his case. It certainly doesn't help Hillary make her case.

Bill was absolutely right when he said that, and when the man gets something right he gets it really right.


by Mystylplx on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 03:31:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

"taking on" the most popular Democrat of our lifetimes,

According to who?

Old folks? Maybe.

Young people ?

NEVER !

Your team just doesn't seem to get it. I got into politics during the Clinton's years. As a matter of fact, I'm the same age as Monica Lewinsky. I wasn't very fond of him after he did what he did.


"I don't oppose all wars...what I do oppose, is a dumb war" ~ Barack Obama
by BlueDiamond on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 04:20:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fondness (none / 0)

I wasn't very fond of him after he did what he did.

The difference? I'm not fond of George W. Bush, nor am I fond of George Herbert Walker Bush, nor am I fond of Ronald Reagan, nor am I fond of Henry Hyde, nor am I fond of Bob Livingston, nor am I fond of Newt Gingrich, nor am I fond of Rudy Giuliani, nor am I fond of Fred Thompson, nor am I fond of Mitt Romney, nor am I fond of John "I have difficulty understanding the establishment clause of the Constitution" McCain, nor am I fond of Roy Blunt, nor am I found of Kit Bond, nor am I fond of Mitch McConnell, nor am I fond of.....    


543,895 votes
by Michael Bersin on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 06:14:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Are you going to deny that Bill Clinton is the most popular Democrat?   Who CARES what generation we are talking about.  Not every Democrat is 20 years old.  A vast majority of Democrats likes that guy a lot.  Don't project from yourself onto others.  Reality differs from your statement.


by georgep on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 09:30:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's Already Started (2.00 / 1)

Well, George, I think he is striking just the right balance in his responses, respectfully differentiating himself on this issue.  According to an AP story this morning:


COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Sunday that the front-runner for his party's nomination, Hillary Rodham Clinton, does not offer the break from politics as usual that voters need.

Both Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., and her husband, former President Clinton, have criticized Obama for his lack of political experience.

Obama said he understands their argument.

"They want to make the argument that Senator Clinton is just an extension of the Bill Clinton presidency," Obama said in an interview with The Associated Press. "They've been the dominant political family in the Democratic Party for the last 20 years now. So it's not surprising that they want to focus on their longevity.

But, Obama said: "My belief is that the American people are looking for a fundamental break from the way we've been doing business."

Obama said his opposition to the Iraq war before combat began shows his experience. Clinton voted to authorize military action in Iraq.

"On the single most important foreign policy issue of our time, I got it right," Obama said.

Jim Davenport - AP Sep 30, 4:55 PM EDT

That works for me, he gets his message across without seeming aggressive or providing any ammunition to the right.  He has a right to campaign against her, you know.  It is an election after all.


by Shaun Appleby on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 05:50:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you are a very silly young person (none / 0)

no one is offended.  You don't have the power you think you do and neither does Obama.  You can't and  Obama certainly can't "slap down" Bill Clinton.  Though I am having a good laugh at all you kids imagining you are doing so.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 03:36:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you are a very silly young person (none / 0)

Likewise, we are getting a kick out of the old timers obsessed with the Clinton's who really think we all are just like them and that we will all just bend over and keep letting the Democratic Establishment screw us over.

Not this time.


"I don't oppose all wars...what I do oppose, is a dumb war" ~ Barack Obama
by BlueDiamond on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 04:23:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you are a very silly young person (2.00 / 1)

Teresa is only capable of seeing things in terms of generational or gender-based struggle. Don't allow her to stake out a position as the wise one due to her advanced years--she has no right to speak on behalf of her generation as if she's somehow representative of it.

Doug Wilder supports Obama Teresa, and he's older than you are. Stopping hiding behind your age. It's weak and pathetic. I know you're smarter than that. I beleive in you Teresa...show us that you can stand on your own two feet. C'mon you can do it.

After all, us dumb youngins need someone to look up to.


by NewNoir on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 04:41:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you are a very silly young person (2.00 / 1)

This is typical Teresa garbage...castigating anyone not in line with her as either a stupid naive youngin' or a sexist racist un-reconstructed frat boy.

Of course, there are people of Teresa's generation and older that are in Obama's camp, just as there are plenty of young people in Clinton's camp.

Her age has not blessed her with wisdom.


by NewNoir on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 04:35:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

about time (2.00 / 1)

the reality is you can't let hillary get only the good of the clinton years without the bad.

she deserves both...

this think HAS to get ugly if either obama or edwards wants to win , no two ways about it


McCain - a serial Opportunist, from marriage to policy positions
by TarHeel on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 11:20:50 AM EST

Re: about time (none / 0)

the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
I am starting to wonder if Obama is willing to look insane, because this strategy didn't work months ago and won't work now.

ps... your title is a riot.


DON'T COUNT THE VOTES, DON'T COUNT THE VOTES.... Obama and the Obamaettes... spring 2008
by TeresaINPennsylvania on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 03:45:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: about time (2.00 / 1)

Obama 28 % among likely Caucus goers in latest Iowa.

Obama had the largest showing at the Iowa Steak Fry

Obama has more offices in Iowa than the others

Obama has the largest grassroots in Iowa.

Obama smallest crowds are even larger than others.

Obama has money to spend in all the early states as needed.

I'd say he knows exactly what he's doing. As far as who's repeating the same tactic over and over again....I'd say the Clinton Campaign is the one who needs to be committed . She's been at her rhetoric for years.


"I don't oppose all wars...what I do oppose, is a dumb war" ~ Barack Obama
by BlueDiamond on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 04:29:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (2.00 / 1)

The problem that I see with Bill's stumping for Hillary is the dynasty issue. She can't really say that her campaign is based on change. There are just too many combinations of the two Clintons and the two Bush's. You could make a scrapbook.

I read somewhere that 40%(?) of all Americans do not know what it is to have a president who isn't a Bush or a Clinton. The inevitability and electability issues just reinforces the appearance of an imperial president. After living through the last eight years with George W. Bush, I don't think any American wants anything but change.


Dare to be free.
by misscee on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 12:45:37 PM EST

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Obama has been attacking this (experience) issue very hard for the past months or so and my guess is that the Clintons feel he's starting to make some headway

- I don't know where you got that idea from , but the last polls I checked I think he was still in the single digits or low teens with the experience question.

Obama hasn't crossed the threshold question yet and I seriously don't know if he would ever cross it. Throwing Bill's words around would not be enough to help him move those numbers.

Frankly I think his answers at the debate , especially the first one at the debate and subsequent answers might have had a near fatal effect.

National polls and New hampshire polls have him in the single digits or low teens .

This is the latest NH poll which might explain why he reacted at that rally in NH , since it seems in Iowa , the war and a new face is keeping him viable. IN Nh its more about experience and its fondness of the Clinton's.

(DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY VOTERS ONLY:) Which Democratic candidate do you think has the right experience to be President?

September
2007

Clinton 47%
Gore 14%
Edwards 8%
Obama 8%


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 01:23:34 PM EST

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Its hard to change first impression , but it is achieveable .

Those answers at the debates weren't terribly good answers .

What would you do in a terrorist strike , willing to meet dictators without precondition , unilaterally go into Pakistan in the following week etc

That whole period in which he was trying to address his foreign policy concerns actually made it worse for him on the experience question.

Now he can find a way to turn that around but it is going to be tough . The best thing he can do for himself is win Iowa.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 01:28:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Those answers were perfectly good answers. Hillary's answer to the "what would you do in case of a terrorist strike?" question sounded like a Bush quote. If any of the male candidates had given that answer they would have been castigated for it.

Most of the bad spin from those debate answers came from the media. When only 2 million people watch a debate, but 200 million watch the medias reporting on that debate, it doesn't much matter what actually happened.


by Mystylplx on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 02:06:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

"but the last polls I checked"

Says it all right there.


"I don't oppose all wars...what I do oppose, is a dumb war" ~ Barack Obama
by BlueDiamond on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 04:34:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Actually that NH poll came out 5 days ago , I can't imagine anything has changed withing % days that has made obama have more experience with voters .

so i don't know what you are getting at.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 04:48:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

within 5 days


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 04:49:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

I just watched Bill Clinton on Meet the Press and ABC.

He is NOT sincere. Which is pathetic. I thought I really liked him in the past.


by win on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 01:32:29 PM EST

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (2.00 / 1)

I thought I really liked him in the past.

- Because he said something that wasn't what you liked to hear about your favorite candidate all of a sudden you don't like him anymore . Politics is a contact spot so grow a thick skin.

Obama's vulnerability is his experience so like it or not he actually said something in all sincereity that is true . Obama himself knows that.

Even his challengers have said so Biden , Dodd , Edwards etc.

Infact the general public have spoken about it too , so he is to deal with it and you have to stop being so sensitive.

The fact that Bill Clinton gave voice to it does not make him insincere.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 01:46:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Edwards has said that?

That's strange, because he really doesn't have room to talk...


by Namtrix on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 02:01:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Yeah I was surprised when he said it , but you know he obviously was coy when he said it .

Was with candy crowley on CNN , go to sirius diary on Edwards just a couple of posts below this , its the last youtube video.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 02:04:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not sincere?????????? (none / 0)

God, people on this site are absolutely blinded by partisanship.  He was excellent on MTP.  Made me proud to be a Democrat, and he didn't even mention Obama.  What a truly lame thing to say.  I just had the opportunity to see Clinton in a press conference, up close and personal.  His commitment to the people of New Orleans is nothing short of inspirational.  Off the cuff he started talking about this project Brad Pitt has going there.  It's one of the few CGI projects he's using funds at his disposal to invest in.  He said he's with NO until the end.  That we need to bring those people back because they are the character of that city.  He said his mother got her nursing certificate from Charity hospital, and he still has it up, framed in his office.  He said NO was the first city he's ever seen, and that preserving it's culture is extremely important, and that it should be the nation's first green city.  Insincere?  Unbelievable.


by bookgrl on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 01:56:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Obama could try that route.  At least he would be trying to do something.  Right now he is just spinning his wheels.  

I can't figure out his campaign really.  They don't seem to want to do anything to try and win.  


by dpANDREWS on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 03:02:37 PM EST

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

I thought there were 8 or 9 people equally running for President.

Why are people keep telling that Obama is the only one who should attack Hillary?

Are the other candidate running for vice-president or congress?


by win on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 04:50:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Bill was a Governor, while Obama lacks executive experience and a legislative record in the US Senate.  When Bill discussed experience, he was referring to executive experience in Arkansas, while Obama cites a paltry record.  That he would compare the two records is insulting.


by truthteller2007 on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 04:07:28 PM EST

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

I don't think he's comparing his experience with Bills--he's comapring his experience with Hillary's and using a quote from Bill to refute the case Hillary is trying to make about him being too inexperienced.

Even so, being a Governor is only superficially similar to being President. Gov's are all about domestic policy while a President has alot more to deal with. Whoever gets elected this time will have to learn as they go, but that's the way it always is when there's no incumbent in the race.


by Mystylplx on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 05:12:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

I looked at the case made here and think it fell woefully flat.  Pretty much like all the other "cases" Obama has tried to make over the last 4, 5 months and gained no traction on.   Of course, that does not stop his supporters from marvelling at this particular "case" made, but the proof is always in the pudding (aka polling in a week.)  We'll see.  I think this is a non-issue, if anything it ends up hurting Obama a smidgen, like everytime he tries to "differentiate himself with Clinton" instead of talking about what HE would do, how HE would be great for the country, etc.

Both Obama and Edwards are simply not getting what they must do, but I blame their weak handlers, campaign managers.


by georgep on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 09:37:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Hmmmmm!!!

BILL CLINTON WITH THE BEST EXPERIENCE MADE A BAD JUDGMENT WITH THAT WOMAN IN THE OVAL OFFICE.

OBAMA IS CLASS! GOOD JUDGMENT AND HONEST.

ARE YOU JEALOUS?


by win on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 04:45:41 PM EST

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Well, Bill did have much more experience at using public security personel to procure women for him. Yeah, Bill brought that experience to the White House. Not only did his experience in this regard serve to needlessly distract the country, it also gave the repubs the "restore integrity to the white house" angle to run on.

And Al Gore was effectively deprived of deploying Bill Clinton as conspicuously as he good have. Of course, we're told this is Al Gore's fault. But this is a choice that he should have never been faced with, especially given that Bill's legacy owed so much to his VP.

This is just as much a part of the Clinton legacy as anything else. Period.


by NewNoir on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 05:07:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (1.00 / 1)

A garbage point.  Period.

Is Obama's cocaine use and admitted "heavy partying" part of his legacy, then?


by georgep on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 09:38:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (1.00 / 1)

Well, no because those didn't take place while Obama was in public office. Just as Clinton's drug use is not part of his legacy neither. You're smart George. Don't pretend that you cannot discern any distinction.

You're the one peddling garbage.


by NewNoir on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 09:53:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

That makes no sense.  3 polls have shown that about a third of those polled would never elect a candidate who has used cocaine in the past (whether in office or not makes no difference.)  People are not nearly as tough on pot use (Clinton's previous drug of choice.)  So, it would surely become a major issue in a general election campaign, given those polled preferences.

Still, that does not mean that WE should make it an issue here amongst Democrats.  It would be the right-wing's to deal with and try to make hay with.   However, that golden rule is not followed by yourself.  You intend to discuss Bill Clinton's "past" as "part of it," which is peddling of right-wing material (thus I brought the example of what the right-wing is going to run with on Obama, knowing what they know about the strong stigma attached specifically to cocaine with a large segment.)   You are smarter than going with "Bill Clinton's past" here as a point, so why go there when it is right-wing meme?

For you to give me a 1-rate for my previous post is rather ridiculous.  If you don't care to remove it I will have to return the favor (a silly ratings exercise that seems like a waste of time) as this started with you attacking BC with "his past," which is a low-blow that should be reserved for the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity, etc.


by georgep on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 10:07:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Pin one on me George. Go ahead.

The whole "right wing meme/frame" line is getting tired and ridiculous. If we are going to assess Bill's legacy you don't get to pick and choose. "Bill Clinton's past" includes some unfortunate episodes--with real consequences--as well as laudable accomplishments. You have no problem delving into Clinton's past when it suits you, but blow a gasket when anyone dares to mention scandal.

It's not 1998/99. We are not defending a president against repubs attempting to unseat him. Thus there is no reason for anyone to shy away from discussing Clinton's past, good and bad.

Go ahead and toss me in with the likes of Hannity and Limbaugh. Statements like that are the equivalent of Bush and Co. saying anyone against the war is un-American or un-patriotic.

It's the same sentiment here: if you don't kow-tow to the Clinton's you're nothing but a rabid right-winger.

I'm calling for everyone to just ignore this crap. Don't allow people like Georgie to scare you into silence about items that are rightfully discussed. Once again, go ahead and pin me.


by NewNoir on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 10:20:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

What in the world are you talking about?  

1.  I don't use Bill Clinton's "legacy."  Go ahead, try to find an instance.  The most mention I make is to state that in Bill Clinton's presidency Hillary Clinton was actually the progressive force.  Meaning that BC is more of a centrist while his wife was the driving force behind progressive policies.   So, for you to state that I delve into Bill Clinton's past "when it suits me" is totally off.  I never do.

2.  Where do I LUMP you with anyone?  I am stating that right-wing framing is best left to the Limbaugh's of the world.  You then extrapolate what you did from that?  

3.  You did not just "discuss," you stated "Well, Bill did have much more experience at using public security personel to procure women for him. Yeah, Bill brought that experience to the White House."  

Go right ahead with your "point" about how terrible BC was for the country.  You are in the smallest of minorities.  


by georgep on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 10:42:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

If we're going to get into a battle of putting words into one's mouth...

Where did I say that Bill was terrible for the country?

And don't pretend to drop Rush and Hannity just for style...it's a gimmick to make a nefarious association.

By you're logic black people talking about "personal responsibility" would be a no-no just because some right-wingers--with different motivations--say the same thing. That's just stupid.


by NewNoir on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 10:47:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

If you step back you will realize how far off you are.  

I have never equated a poster to Limbaugh/Hannity, and I am sure not going to start with you.

I was talking about repeating the right-wing framing that I detect in some of the comments.  Particularly, the idea that Clinton had his "public security personnel procure women for him" has been thoroughly debunked and exists only in the right-wing's minds.  Why use a right-wing talking point that has never been proven, in fact has been shown to be nonsense peddled by Limbaugh?   If you want to discuss the past, do so with real points, as they exist, but not with stuff that does not exist.   Larry Patterson and Roger Perry, the troopers in question, have been discredited thoroughly with their story, so I REALLY don't see why you are using THAT particular episode to make your case here.  


by georgep on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 11:00:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

OK, less assume--for arguments sake--that said episode didn't occur.

But the countless other episodes are all fair game?

How about you just articulate a bright-line rule that Bill Clinton's sexual recklessness is to never be mentioned?

Look George, how about you just ignore references to Clinton's "past". Why dignify such low-blows with a reponse?

The truth is, Bill Clinton's relations with Monica were great for his popularity and more importantly, Hillary's popularity.

Say what you want about Obama's drug use. You know that man ain't steppin' out on Michelle. There's more to being a dutiful husband than shilling for your wife.


by NewNoir on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 11:15:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Remarks have to be taken as they come, and so they will.

This one just made no sense and is absolutely a right-wing talking point, as I stated in the very first comment.  The "troopers went out and got Bill Clinton fresh women" story that you ran with is ridiculous and shameful, and should not appear on a Democratic blog.  Why should I ignore nonsense like that?  The hell I will.  Don't peddle it in the first place.   The TROOPER story has been thoroughly debunked, is a RIGHT-WING THEME.  Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?   You are WRONG to bring a thoroughly debunked story 2 Arkansas state troopers peddled to the right-wing (which ate it up, and continued to run with even after it was discredited) to this place.  


by georgep on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 11:42:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Calm down Georgie...I doubt anyone is going to change their vote based on Clinton's well-known sexual escapades.


by NewNoir on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 01:07:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

and what was the cross-tabs on that? (none / 0)

how many voters who were not social conservatives fell into that category?

please don't tell me that you expect the religious right to vote for hillary.  as interesting as a point it may be to you, it's about as meaningful as saying, "republican delegates to the convention will not vote for obama..."


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 07:57:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Know your keyboard (none / 0)

That key that says "Caps Lock" on your keyboard - press it.


543,895 votes
by Michael Bersin on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 06:19:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I wonder if (none / 0)

they could do a campaign commercial based on this...

Show a clip of Hillary talking about her experience, then cut to a clip of Bill making that quote. Fade to Barack looking right into the camera and saying how Bill was right, then maybe a couple sentences about how judgement is more important than experience before cutting to a clip of Hillary talking about how her Iraq war vote was a vote of "conscience" and a clip of her "retaliate" answer from the first debate.

That would be fun to watch.


by Mystylplx on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 05:06:45 PM EST

Re: I wonder if (none / 0)

Sure fun to watch - along with another 5 point drop for Obama in the polls.


by georgep on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 09:39:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

feel free to show a causal link between something. (none / 0)

barack (or hillary) said and a resulting 5 point drop in the polls for obama.  that would be interesting...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 10:01:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

George can't do that. (none / 0)


by NewNoir on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 10:05:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

Are you kidding?  You were here right around that time, I believe.  The timeline is quite obvious.  Take a look at when Clinton all of a sudden started surging, where right before the race had been extremely stable, the margin was within a couple of points for many months:

http://www.pollster.com/08-US-Dem-Pres-P rimary.php


by georgep on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 10:14:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

2005? 2006??? (2.00 / 1)

you realize, right, that the graph you link to does not support your contention.  it definitely doesn't answer my question.  at best, it shows -- what? -- a ONE POINT (maybe 1 and 1/2) drop in a trend line over an unspecified period of time (as opposed to what appears to be a 2 and 1/2 point drop by hillary over an earlier period).

i was, of course, mocking your comment about another 5 point drop, which you inferred was the result of barack talking trash about hillary.  i asked for proof of a statistically significant relationship between the two, not a scattergram that purports to measure trends (since it appears to compare polls of likely voters and registered voters, it is at best a mug shot)...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 08:06:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

I think people are blowing this up into something bigger than what it is- the "inexperienced" label will never be put to rest with Obama, especially not at this late date and how long it has lasted- but I just see this as a "blip" on the radar- Obama made his point and should move on from it.  He certainly should not take Bill on in a continued form- I'm not that happy about Bill saying what he did because I thought it was not needed- but Obama starting some press war with Bill would be crazy.


by reasonwarrior on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 07:19:04 PM EST

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Crazy indeed.  But, who knows?  Obama thought he had struck gold when he went at it for 5 days with the "Clinton=Bush/Cheney Lite" thing just to see his polling fall apart in every state and nationally, so don't be surprised if someone tells him that he should go after Bill Clinton now, and that Obama actually heeds that call of the sirens.


by georgep on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 09:42:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

God you're fragile George.


by NewNoir on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 09:55:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama takes on Bill Clinton (none / 0)

Surely, though, he learned his lesson from that.  If not, I guess it will given to him all over again. But I think he's smarter than that-


by reasonwarrior on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 01:32:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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